Re: Don't talk about neurosuspension
From (RHA)
Organization NeoSoft, Inc. +1
Date 22 Jan 1996 00:33:13 -0600
Newsgroups sci.cryonics
Message-ID <4dvb39$>
References 1 2 3 4
You might find the article "Neural Networks for
Vertebrate Locomotion" in the 1/96 issue of
Scientific American interesting. BTW, this
business about "needing" to save the spinal
neurons puts me in mind of an old joke:
Patient: Doctor, will I be able to play the violin
after your treatment?
Doctor: Why, of course!
Patient: That's odd, I couldn't play it before.
I agree with your argument: if you need new spinal
neurons, all you need is to retrain them. Besides, if
we can accurately simulate the mechanics of the body,
all the training may well be preprogrammed into the
new neurons--all synapes preset!
In article <>,
Garret Smyth <> wrote:
>
>I've removed a lot of the previous stuff which is repetetive. It was
>about whether there is a difference between whole body and neurosuspension
>and whether there is anything worthwhile learned by the spinal chord.
>
>The edited stuff is mostly in several previous posts in this thread. If
>anyone can't access them I can e-mail them directly.
>Marvin Minsky:
>> It's the spinal cord, mostly. It would make a lot of sense to keep
>> that, too. Take it out carefully, and coil it with the brain.
>> There's probably a good deal of low level motor learning in it.
>If there is learning in the spinal chord I agree that it must be pretty
>low level - no one is seriously going to argue that Christopher Reeve is
>no longer Christopher Reeve because he has a broken back.
>I have to admit that Marvin Minsky does outrank me, but even so, he still
>used that little word "probably" about there being learning in the spinal chord.
>Do you have any evidence?
>The cycling arguement seems weak to me as I said before - the difficult bit is
>the balance, and the spinal chord has no idea which way up it is. Balance is
>in the head.
>I'm not being dogmatic about this, it is just that I have never yet heard of
>even one experiment showing learning in the spinal chord. I look forward to
>enlightenment.
>TTFN
>Garret Smyth
>
>Phone: 0 or +44
Re: Don't talk about neurosuspension
---Eavesdropping On A Little Newsgroup Bantering---
From (Marvin Minsky)
Organization MIT Media Laboratory
Date Sun, 21 Jan 1996 19:57:21 GMT
Newsgroups sci.cryonics
Message-ID <>
References 1 2 3
In article <> writes:
>I've removed a lot of the previous stuff which is repetetive. It was
>about whether there is a difference between whole body and neurosuspension
>and whether there is anything worthwhile learned by the spinal chord.
>The edited stuff is mostly in several previous posts in this thread. If
>anyone can't access them I can e-mail them directly.
>Marvin Minsky:
>> It's the spinal cord, mostly. It would make a lot of sense to keep
>> that, too. Take it out carefully, and coil it u[ with the brain.
>> There's probably a good deal of low level motor learning in it.
>If there is learning in the spinal chord I agree that it must be pretty
>low level - no one is seriously going to argue that Christopher Reeve is
>no longer Christopher Reeve because he has a broken back.
Sorry, I didn't mean high-level learning. In fact, perhaps little
that should be called learning at all. What I shold have said is that
there is useful information in the spinal cord because the sensory and
motor signals do not run directly from brain to muscles and skin. So
the cord contains the details of those mappings. Probably they could
all be reconstructed from the CNS by interviewing the revived person,
but it would be tedious.
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From: http://www.spine-surgery.com/vgr/case4/case4a.html
Discussion and recommendations of actual spinal surgery cases:
Spine Surgery Grand Rounds: CASE 4 OPENED
RETURN TO :
SPINE HOME PAGE
VIRTUAL GRAND ROUNDS TABLE OF CONTENTS
I have an interesting case I could use some help with. 50 yo male s/pT11,12,L1 burst fxs in 1969 treated with posterior decompressions(?). Did okfor 10 years, developed painful kyphosis and had an anterior fusion situ in1980 followed by posterior Luque instrumentation 2 weeks later with 6 monthsof body casting. 4 months ago patient had insidious onset of total LLEnumbness and decreased strength (3+/5) with increasing bladder incontinence.Myelogram shows complete block below gibbus deformity at approx L2 (no dyepassage with any positioning) and CT scan shows posterior Luqueinstrumentation to be nearly touching posterior aspect of L1 vertebral body! Anterior fusion appears solid... My plan is to remove the Luqueinstrumentation and follow his neurologic status.
Click on any thumbnail image to see a high resolution image. After viewing, press the backup button on your browser to return to this page.
http://www.spine-surgery.com/vgr/case3/case3a.html
Last Modified: 1/6/96
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEELS TO THE WHITE HOUSE
"WHEELS TO THE WHITE HOUSE" is a cross country journey by wheelchair to Washington, D.C Jeffrey Clinton is a 31 year old quadraplegic, injured in a motorcycle accident in February, 1988. Every year, there are over 8000 new spinal cord injury survivors. Eighty per cent of those happen to people between the ages of 16 and 28. With Jeffrey and George are two young people, a 17 year old girl and an 18 year old young man. They feel that if Jeffrey can "wheel" across the United States, they can walk beside him all the way.
PURPOSE: The purpose of this trip is to bring public awareness to spinal cord injury and the handicapped as well as raise funds for a spinal cord injury cure and to build a rehabilitation institute. What is a spinal cord injury? A spinal cord injury happens when there is a trauman to or a disease of the spinal cord. Paralysis is the main symtom that takes two forms: Paraplegia-paralysis affecting the legs and lower parts of the body Quadriplegia-paralysis affecting the area below the neck and chest area including both the arms and legs
Other accompaning symptoms:
Demineralization of bone
Reduction in pulmonary function
Impairment of the circulatory system
Dysfunction of the kidney, bladder and bowels
Sexual Dysfunction
Muscle Spasms
Skin Sores
Chronic Pain
What we're all about
Our story starts here. . .Jeffrey and George Farah, Jr. met in junior high school. Jeffrey was
always athletic, 6 foot two and 200 pounds and could run the 40 yards dash in 4.4 seconds.
George was popular, funny and very likable. They became fast friends, like peas and carrots, all the way through high school. February 4, 1988, became an unforgettable day. As he came home from work, Jeffrey turned a corner he had negotiated many times before.
Sometime during theday, a construction crew had left loose gravel on the pavement. Jeffrey lost control of his motorcycle as he turned the corner. His helmet saved his life, but the impact against the concrete curb broke his neck. All of Jeffrey and George's experiences could never have prepared them for the incredible challenges that lie ahead. George was unbelievably supportive and helped Jeffrey through many of the accomplishments of his initial therapy. But they quickly realized that it would be Jeffrey's attitude that determined the course of his rehabilitation and the rest of his life. He realized that "ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING" and he could still do the very best he could with what he had. Fortitude played a daily role. It took only 18 months for Jeffrey to attain the level of independence at which he was able to care for himself without supervision. Jeffrey and George want to share their knowledge and understanding with the people across the United States.
They left Tempe, Arizona on Friday, August 4th, traveled north through Utah, will go across southern Wyoming, south from Cheyenne and south through Colorado. From there they go east through Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia before Washington, D.C. They anticipate arriving in Washington, D.C. approximately November 1st.
With Jeffrey are two young people, a young woman aged 17 and a young man age 18. They have given up part of a senior high school year and their jobs to walk with Jeffrey but feel if he can "wheel" across the United States, they can walk beside him all the way!!
PROGRESS:
September 8th-Jeffrey and his team are in Wichita, Kansas. They have enjoyed the response from newspapers and television and from the many warm hearted people they have met. Mile-wise, they are halfway through their trip. Their visit to the Shriner's Children's Hospital was a special and touching experience. Despite a few flat tires on the wheelchair, they are making good progress and enjoying meeting wonderful new friends along the way. Thank you to all who have stopped to meet them. COMING UP!!!!Eureka, Kansas Yates Center, Kansas Iola and Fort Scott, Kansas Nevada and Carthage, Missouri Springfield, Missouri Branson, Missouri
WHAT CAN YOU DO? Tell your friends and neighbors about Jeffrey and his "Wheels" Meet us in one of the towns or cities we'll be in. We want to meet you. For a contribution of $20 or more, we'll send you a "Wheels to the White House" t-shirt For more information or to make a contribution call 1 or e-mail at
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